You should remember, she voted for the Iraq war and to designate the Iranian Republican guard a terrorist group (effectively giving George Bush all he needs to attack). Last week she said she’d ‘obliterate’ Iran if they attacked Isreael. None of this sounds like peace talk to me.
Right now death and destruction is everywhere. Were bombing in Sadr City and Somalia and killing civilians everywhere we go.
Now, here’s where it gets bad. We’re just starting to learn that there may be more suicides among Iraq and Afghanistan veterans than actual combat victims.
The number of suicides among veterans of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll because of inadequate mental health care, the U.S. government’s top psychiatric researcher said.
Community mental health centers, hobbled by financial limits, haven’t provided enough scientifically sound care, especially in rural areas, said Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland. He briefed reporters today at the American Psychiatric Association’s annual meeting in Washington.
Insel echoed a Rand Corporation study published last month that found about 20 percent of returning U.S. soldiers have post- traumatic stress disorder or depression, and only half of them receive treatment. About 1.6 million U.S. troops have fought in the two wars since October 2001, the report said. About 4,560 soldiers had died in the conflicts as of today, the Defense Department reported on its Web site.
Now that you know the American death toll is double what you thought it was, do you still think it’s a good idea?
TAGS: attack, George Bush, Hillary, Iran, Iraq, war
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May 6th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I don’t see anything about suicide in that article, or a statistic about it being double the amount of deaths, I’m confused.
Either way, there’s no doubt Veteran mental health is a huge issue, but I don’t think you can honestly make it an ant-Clinton issue. The war happened regardless of Obama’s non-vote, and it would’ve happened without Clinton’s as well. The “Vote for Obama because he didn’t vote for war” argument is pretty intellectually shallow. We’re there, so it doesn’t matter. Both of these candidates have the same stance on the war now, and that does matter. They also both have the same stance on the treatment of Veterans ( http://www.timesleader.com/opinion/20080504_jbutkiewicz_ART.html ). All I’m saying is, Obama is rad and vote for him if that’s your steez, but don’t try to make Clinton into Dick Cheney. She’s been our girl for years, she doesn’t deserve that.
May 6th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
The article is about suicide specifically - it’s in the first sentence of the quote. Here’s the math: we’ve had about 4,560 combat deaths. Now were finding out that there may be more suicides (after the war) than combat deaths. So Combat deaths+Suicides=over 9,000 dead.
I wasn’t comparing Hillary’s votes to Obama’s votes - he wasn’t even mentioned in my post. My problem is with Hillary in that I don’t trust her to actively pursue peace. She’s done her best to talk and vote tough, which will always get us closer to more war and not peace. While were on it… Obama has advocated diplomacy (and better judgment) over saber rattling more often than not but again, I wasn’t trying to compare. If more Americans understood that the aftermath of war is just as bad as war, then they may not vote for it. Since we don’t have a lot of McCain fans here, I made Hillary the focus.
May 6th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Yeah, there’s a stat of about 200 Iraq suicides. I can’t locate a 4k figure. Obama is not some Iraq magician, mind you. His policy and Hillary’s are questionable at best, lies at worst. They’ve both yet to address the big moral questions in real terms. Hater-izing Hillary is the “old politics” Obamaniacs are supposed to detest.
May 6th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
“The number of suicides among veterans of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may exceed the combat death toll”
Here’s another article about it: http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Soldier_suicides_could_trump_war_to_05052008.html
Though I couldn’t find hard stats either there’s a WashPo article from January here that talks about it more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/30/AR2008013003106_pf.html
“Last year, about 2,100 soldiers injured themselves or attempted suicide, compared with about 350 in 2002, according to the U.S. Army Medical Command Suicide Prevention Action Plan.”
May 6th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Yeah, from what i gather, that is a study predicting possible numbers of future suicides based on the levels of PTSD. A major issue no doubt about it. I still don’t see how we can blame Hill for it, but it’d be a great thing to get candidates really focused on. Just one of many many ways that wars produce unseen casualties.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
“Could trump” is in headline. 121 last year. At that pace for last five years, over 500 suicides. Could that number multiply by ten-fold? Maybe…
May 6th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
So perhaps it’s an alarmist article, but it’s starting to pick up steam on AM radio. Regardless, there’s a growing epidemic of suicide among soldiers and we have no good reason to trust the official or unofficial stats. I’m sure we’re all in agreement that the mental and emotional problems will go on for possibly decades with many of these troubled soldiers.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
We should also keep in mind that tons of soldiers have families that will no doubt be effected. More children with daddy issues? Who knew it was even possible. I easily blame Hill for the obvious-she voted for it. I let it slide the first time, but she blew it again and voted yes on Iran. How do her supporters justify this? I’ve never heard an answer that doesn’t involve Obama and his lack of voting but that isn’t the question! He spoke out against it and that’s a fuckload more than she did! I will never forget hearing her defend the first vote on the dailyshow. She may as well have been in the Bush administration. That was right around the same time Obama was making speeches AGAINST the war. So I’ll take my chances with Obama because she has proven to make poor decisions time and time again. I seriously don’t understand how people shrug their shoulders at her voting record. It baffles me honestly. I’m not saying she would be like having McCain, but saying that it doesn’t matter how we got into war but that we’re here now is the same argument the GOP makes. It’s the question of why would we trust the person who drove us into the ditch to get us out? I wouldn’t.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Scenario, where 3 people are in a car and accidentally drive into a ditch:
Driver: “Whoa, Holy shit, sorry I drove into this ditch. Did you see that street sign? It totally said turn left for the offramp, but it led into a ditch! What the fuck? What asshole put that sign there to cause this?”
Passenger: “You dick! Why did you drive us into that ditch?”
Driver: “Well, like I said, the sign misled me, now let’s try to get out of this ditch.”
Passenger: “No. Fuck you, you got us into this ditch, let Barry drive us out.”
Driver: “But Barry doesn’t know how to drive, he only just got his learner’s permit.”
Passenger: “Who cares, he never drove me into a ditch before.”
Driver: “Barry you’re a great guy and all, but I don’t know if you are ready to try such an advanced driving maneuver, why don’t you let me drive us out, I’ve been down some ditches before. Then, after we get out and I drive for a while, you can drive?”
Barry: “Believe in me!”
I know, I am a total asshole, but you get my point…
May 6th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Touché! Analogies are never perfect, are they? Like Hillary’s Rocky one where she forgets that Rocky loses to the black guy.
May 6th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Oh, and I don’t think that is really an alarmist article… the study on it’s own is scary as shit. PTSD is no joke, and if Iraq War vets are suffering from it in such high numbers, suicide is only one of many adverse effects that it will have on our generation, (think of violent crime, drug addiction, etc and the domino effect they can have).
May 6th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Azriel! you are not an asshole, you’re awesome! But this scenario is a stretch and when I say stretch I’m being polite. And my question remains unanswered as well. Again, you are knockin Barack before he even makes a mistake and completely ignoring Hillary’s poor decisions! What I’m sayin is, she can’t fuckin drive dude!
May 6th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
one more thing! Driving into the ditch was not an accident!! Two of the three people chose it! NOT AN ACCIDENT. Not even an oops, how did this happen, no way man. They meant to get in that ditch, they picked out that ditch.